Interview with Kathleen on a Different Subject…Divorce
When I divorced, it was so helpful to hear about other people's stories, especially those who had "made it through". For that reason we decided to tell our story that involved Nesting. And since nesting seemed to be an unfamiliar term to many, we wanted to share the details of our positive experience.
What exactly is nesting?
Nesting is a term that more and more people are using in regard to divorce and custody arrangements. It is when the parents who are getting divorced create an arrangement where the children live in one home, and it is the divorced parents who alternate. It’s kind of putting a traditional custody arrangement on its heels.
And this is something that you did when you divorced?
Yes. We chose to keep our three children in the home with me while their father lived nearby. But instead of having the kids go back and forth, I would leave my apartment, and my ex would come into the home. He might come in on his night for dinner, and at times he would come in for a night or the weekend, and I would go elsewhere. It sounds crazy, and I won’t say it was easy, but it really has paid off. I think it gave my three children some consistency at a time when they really needed it.
This doesn’t sound like something that would work for a lot of divorced couples.
I agree. At first, it seems almost ludicrous. But now, having worked with so many couples on different versions of nesting, I can only say that it is a real game changer. And there are different ways to do nesting. We did it in a pretty extreme way, meaning that I literally moved out of my home and allowed my ex to come in, but that is not for everyone. Sometimes it could be just allowing the ex to come in for dinner instead of always going out to a restaurant. It gives kids a chance to be in their home where they’re comfortable. I think my ex realized that was often the best way to connect with his kids. Trying to have some meaningful conversations with your children and getting caught up on their lives in a diner or a rental apartment is not always conducive to connecting.
Is there a financial advantage to nesting?
Actually, there is. It allowed us to have one home or, at the time, an apartment, and then my ex had a smaller apartment. Trying to finance two homes for three children, which would mean possibly a three or four-bedroom house or apartment, is financially overwhelming. In some cases, it’s simply not manageable, so you end up having two homes that are less desirable instead of one home that can really hold the kids. And remember, not all of this is permanent; you can do it for stages until you get back on your feet financially or sort through some financial arrangements. It takes a long time for a divorce agreement to get settled, so you are often tied financially to your ex longer than you would expect.
You wrote this book with your second husband, Chris Dugan. What was that process like?
Ha! It was pretty challenging, at times very fun and collaborative, but in the end, it really was a learning process. Having to go back and think about these things and write about them with both perspectives, mine as the mom in the primary home and Chris, as a dad who was visiting a nesting home,led to some really thoughtful and interesting conversations. And the process itself was fascinating because we are very different people who have very different work processes. Chris tends to get to a task and finish it all in one go, and I tend to write, put it down and think about it, and go back to it, so adjusting to our different writing styles and approaches was a really good exercise for us. It gave us a deeper understanding of what we each went through.
Are you both still nesting?
Actually, more than a decade later, we are not. Our children are all out of the house except for one, so Chris and I live together with my youngest son. He knows that his father is welcome here anytime, and we still do many things together. You’ll find the three of us most weekends sitting together watching Zack‘s football games, and we share some holidays, like Thanksgiving. Again so much of this sounds crazy, but if the end goal is to spend as much time with your children as possible, then all of this compromising and including is worth it. All seven of our kids think we are a bit nuts, but they also appreciate what we do to make things easier for them. Who wants to drive around to two homes on Thanksgiving or choose which home to go to?
What has been the feedback on your book?
It has been so positive. The most common thing we hear is how accessible it is to read. One person told us that she read it on the beach! It is not overly complex, and we wanted it to be user-friendly so it is a mix of our story but with very practical and actionable strategies.
Is it helpful for those who are going through a divorce but don't want to nest?
Yes, it actually is. When I divorced, it was so helpful to hear about other people's stories, especially those who had "made it through". There are lots of tidbits that would help anyone going through a divorce.
Where can people find your book and how can people find you?
It is available on amazon and the best way is to reach out to me at kathleen@brighamadvising as well, people can book an hour-long session with me directly.
